Thank you all very much for being here.

Very excited to have you here,

and I'm very excited to welcome my guest,

as noted writer, director, producer,

director of photography, Zach Snyder,

great movies such as The Watchman.

Rebel Moon most recently.

And we're here to talk to you a little bit today

about tech in Entertainment.

Hi, Zach.

[Zach] Hey, thanks for having me.

No, thank you for being here.

Hey, everybody. [audience cheering]

Nice.

I appreciate the woos.

I appreciate the woos.

[Zach] Where is that fire?

Isn't this a fireside chat? Oh, we were having that.

No. Sorry.

It's just a little, just you and I.

We can make it intimate.

[chuckles] Okay. Very good.

Okay.

So you have a really specific vision, right?

Like I feel like in your work, highly stylized,

and I don't mean that as a criticism,

but how do you see...

Let's start with, like, the big elephant in the room.

How do you see the advancing AI systems

like LLMs, visual models, influencing the industry?

I know it's a broad question.

No, no, it's a cool question.

Because obviously it's an exciting time

and obviously that technology, which is also

still slightly ambiguous about what exactly

and how exactly it will land in entertainment.

I think it's an exciting frontier

and it's a cool thing to speculate about

and have fun thinking about workflows and stuff.

I've spent some time sort of thinking about

like, what a workflow and AI workflow might look like,

Mh-hm. You know?

But I do think it's a thing that...

Like, for instance, I think, you know,

when you have someone like myself or I think,

you know, anyone who's interested

in making specific imagery, like very,

very specific imagery, I feel like that...

We're still evolving toward that, I think.

With AI, you know? Yeah.

And so I've thought about it this way.

Like, I think that in the not too distant future,

I like to think about the AI, like

the potential for an AI interaction

to be like, if the AI can create

a 3D world, like a game engine,

but like an instantaneous 3D world,

which is not outrageous.

No, I think we're not far from that.

Not far from that. Yeah.

So say I filmed you with my phones

or some other capture device, or lidar

or whatever, you're the actor,

and you did your awesome performance

and it was great, by the way.

Thank you so much. It was so good.

And then we say we've got the performance now.

Okay. And

I can see a world where the production designer

has created all the sets and everything that we needed.

Those have all been sort of loaded into an aesthetic bank.

And that is to say that this bank...

The AI understands what the movie

aesthetic core will be, and that hopefully

is a thing that I'm interested in, right?

Like, Yeah.

Now, like I like this kind of lensing,

this kind of moats of dust, this kind of backlight,

this kind of whatever, on and on.

And also this kind of set design.

It's, for instance, we're doing our movie

in France, so it's gonna be like a French landscape

but we're very specific about the French farmhouse,

and this is the way it looks, and it's got

patina walls and all that, we did it.

Okay. So that exists.

And I can imagine that now, when we make a shot,

if that 3D world, if, if the AI understands,

if I'm saying, Okay, I want the camera 10 feet away.

I want it this high, you're by the window.

So you're lit by the window.

I want the sun out the window.

And if that can happen in real time,

if that conversation could happen.

'Cause like, you know, I converse with my-

You you were just conversing with your AI backstage.

Yes.

And I find that like...

'Cause I think that also this idea of, like,

right now, this sort of...

The prompting gatekeepers of AI have this.

You know, there is this kind of prompting

what I would call, which is cool in a way

because like AI is like, Oh, no,

it's available to everyone unless

you don't know how to do it.

Yeah.

Then you can't do it.

So it's like a cool, there's a cool thing.

Do you see it enhancing your filmmaking,

or do you see it replacing filmmaking?

I think where I was going with this is that,

so in this world where I'm making that shot of you.

Yeah. The question

really becomes, unless there's something

about this shot that requires it to be made

only on the computer, or only in an AI universe,

then I think you have to say,

Okay, well what's the why of it then?

Right. Like, what does that

keep me from flying to France?

Is that all that I saved?

I mean, if it's a handheld shot

of you sitting in a chair by window,

Why would you use AI. Why would you use it?

Yeah. Other than you can,

and a lot, look, there's not to say

that that's not a reason. Right.

You know, does it democratize in some way,

the ability to not have to travel to France,

and if I'm just at home, a filmmaker at home,

and I captured my actor friend,

and I wanna make a movie in France,

can I just do it?

Maybe. Yeah.

So I mean, I think there is a potential

for it making things accessible,

because obviously that same AI doesn't care

whether the house is on fire, or whether

it's on Mars or whether it's underwater.

That's all the same conversation.

So all the things that might cost

a lot of money about what I just described

are to the AI no different.

Right. But to you as a filmmaker,

is it gonna be different?

Like, do you need the experience of like,

being in the actual locations?

That's a thing I don't know.

Because it's this theoretical...

When I can have a conversation

with an image making device that is natural,

that is to say, if I say in real time,

you know, wouldn't it be cool if the that back wall

was like another 10 feet away, and the sun

was like, just nicking the horizon

so that during the take the sun just goes down

and now this ambient light takes over.

You know, that.

And if that's happening as we speak,

that's an interesting way to understand

visual language. Right.

But is it a replacement for?

I don't know. That's a thing I don't know.

But it is a fun conversation.

I can see...

The thing that's weird is that people think like,

Oh, that's a great way to make storyboards

or to make pre-visualized shots

that then you could take the set

and use that to shoot with.

Yes, that's true.

But there's very little difference then

between that and the actual shot, you know?

Yeah. But you also...

We've spoken in the past before

and you, you know, have done all

your physical storyboards, like,

you hand draw everything for The Watchmen.

Is AI gonna take a lot of the creative process

out for you, if you're just like talking

to the chat bot and saying, Draw this frame for me.

Draw the sun setting.

Yeah, that's where I think the problem

is for me, personally.

I don't think that the drawing of it

is so specific. Mh-hm! Mh-hm!

And I'm not interested in the

AI's interpretation of what I'm saying.

Right. That's where

the rubber hits the road, I think, for me.

And where I think the technology

is really kind of quickly changing

because it is quickly changing from

a suggestion like, Hey, I wanna see 1920s L.A.

[Hemal] Right.

You know, like a woman walking

with a suitcase down to Hollywood Boulevard.

It'll give you its concept of that,

and it'll be pretty awesome.

But it's not necessarily, if I drew it over here

and then went like this, I'd be like,

Oh.

It's close, but it's not your vision.

It's close, but that's its own.

Yeah. Take.

And I think that's where I think

the tool will become...

And it's happening this moment, all the AI,

like, you know, video generators

and image generators, they're the few holy grails

that came up immediately are staying on model.

You know, that's a big deal, right?

Like, can I do two shots of you

that are like, okay, a closeup

and a wide shot where you look the same?

That was a bit of a problem, you know?

But now they're starting to work that out because.

Well, let me ask you, are you overall...

Well, I'm not gonna ask you 'cause I think,

I will already say we've talked a little bit before,

but you are generally very optimistic

about the use of artificial intelligence

in filmmaking, in the creative process.

You do not come to it from a perspective

of That technology shouldn't be involved

in artistic endeavor.

Well, yeah.

I mean, I'm definitely not a gloom and doom

AI person at all.

I think that I've done so many movies

with so much visual effects, and so much technology

and I've lived in a very virtual world

when it comes to filmmaking,

and also very organic handheld world.

And those two worlds have mixed a lot for me too.

So I think for me personally, you know,

I sort of put performance at the front,

you know, at the head of it.

I think if you're capturing an incredible

performance, everything else around the actors,

that's context.

You know? And that's all it is.

And so I think that...

And AI...

Look, I don't know that anyone's

interested in the AI's story.

Right. Or its point of view.

Right.

You know, maybe they are.

That's cool.

That's another sub genre.

But I think that for me, I think that

it seems eager to get at

what the stories that people are trying to tell.

You know, and I think that in the same way

that when, we all...

'Cause look, every single person has a pretty good camera

On their phones. Pretty good camera

on their phones. Yeah.

Every single person.

A pretty good movie camera.

Yeah. Yes.

A legit movie camera.

And yet, you know, we don't have

right this second anyway, maybe that'll change.

I hope it does.

But we don't have millions of awesome movies

just being uploaded out of people's pockets.

I feel like the AI represents another tool

that will help us make movies awesome, I hope.

It's been my experience that certainly

as a research tool, and a little bit

as an image making tool, I've found it really interesting.

I'm curious to see how you're using it.

'cause like I said, you have it on your phones,

you talking to it, asking it questions.

Is it becoming a person to you?

Your AI chat bot?

Person? That sounds weird.

But I mean- Is it

developing a personality?

[laughs] You know, what it does say,

Um. Which I find really interesting.

So when it's explaining something, it'll go,

Um, you know, the Golden Gate bridge is, um.

And I'm like, Oh, that's, that's cool.

Or it'll breathe, you know, it inhales.

Oh. Which I think

that's all in the programming.

It's a Chat GPT for the, the language model.

And it does [sighs] anyway.

It does that, you know, and it goes, [sighs].

You can hear they program that inhale

and they program the, Um.

obviously to make it Yeah.

More natural, right?

And it's way better than like, look,

I have the elevens lab reader.

Do you know that company?

Amazing. Yes.

And I find that the voice on the Chat GPT

is a scale more natural than that even.

And it's just really...

I don't know how it works, but it's awesome.

So you were talking about how performance

is actually really important to your filmmaking process

and how you've already used tools before.

Do you think filmmakers should be required

to disclose that they've used AI generators?

It's an interesting question.

You know, does the audience want that?

You know, I think is a better question

only because I mean...

Certainly we don't ask,

when you go see a movie,

like a Marvel film or a superhero movie

that has a lot of visual effects.

Are people interested in knowing when

that was a digital double, that was really the person.

Yeah. Or is it the moment.

Or afterward maybe, maybe that's the conversation

after you've seen the film,

Oh, we used AI in these little sections.

Or is the question like,

whether it is an entirely AI generated movie?

I feel like if that happened, we would know about it.

First of all, everyone they would

love it or hate it or whatever that would be,

I don't know.

That's still, I think up to debate.

About how we feel about it. Yeah.

About images being created that way.

I mean, you've seen that Coke commercial.

Do you see that Coke commercial?

The polar bear commercial? Yeah.

The polar bear spot. Yeah.

I mean.

Was the point for it not to fool us?

I couldn't-

I'm not even gonna talk about,

I wouldn't speculate on that,

the Coca-Cola commercial right now.

Because, okay, obviously this is an AI generator.

Maybe they wanted to make it, Right.

Like really, obviously AI.

Deliberately make a lot of people angry.

Yeah. Yeah,

But what made them angry, do you know?

So it sounds like you're advocating

for a really specific use of AI

in your filmmaking, or leaving the door open for it.

You know, to me it's- But not replacing anything.

I don't think it's replacing anything.

And I don't know why you would want it to right now,

because it's really quite, I mean, I think it's great.

Like I say, you can imagine costume designers,

production designers, editors, everyone having

this kind of central hub that the AI

kind of manages and as a way of

sort of creating an overall aesthetic

that is consistent and that where everyone can...

Because everyone's checking in,

everyone is constantly sort of

reaffirmed in the aesthetic of the

Yeah. Project.

And you can imagine that that could be

really efficiently and kind of seamlessly

curated by an AI kind of,

you know, point of view.

That is to say that every time on this project,

every time we ask it a question,

it's answering it from the point of view of-

[Hemal] Right.

The aesthetic of the film. Right.

Which I think could be really awesome for, you know,

some immersive kind of movie making experience,

whether it be like, you know, I don't know,

like an animated film, Avatar.

I don't know, something that really requires

a singular, That kind of focus.

Point of view, yeah. On that technology.

So you're talking about it in terms

of, like, efficiency.

How do you see it changing the industry?

I see it changing the industry.

I mean, it'll be interesting its impact on visual effects.

The effects. Obviously that's

happening right now.

But like, motion capture, voiceover artists,

animators.

Yeah. I mean, voice over artists-

It has the potential to be very disruptive.

Yeah. That makes me nervous.

I feel like you probably, you don't want it,

you know, voicing things.

I mean, it can, obviously. Yeah.

What I just said, you know?

It says Um. Pretty well. [Hemal laughing]

But I feel like...

I feel like if there's an author

and an artist at its base, then I think it's cool, you know?

Right.

But it's not going to take away that,

but it is gonna streamline the industry.

It is going to kind of send ripples all the way through.

I think it's doing that right now.

It absolutely is doing it right now.

And I think that's what I'm saying is that

educating yourself and understanding what it can do

and what it can't do is important right now.

Especially at where it exists in image making

and storytelling.

Because I think if you're in now and understand it

what it's not capable of as well,

I think that that's important.

I think that you can really use it as a tool.

Yeah. As opposed to fighting it

or as opposed to sort of standing on the sidelines,

you know, kind of with your hands on your hips.

It's going. Yeah.

I mean, look, six months ago is different from now,

and six months from now will be

much different from where we are.

And I think that it's important to stay with it.

Basically, you're gonna be left behind

if you don't embrace it.

[Zach hums]

Did I put words in your mouth?

No, no. But I'm worried. Yeah.

If you don't. Yeah.

Yeah. So you're worried if you don't.

And like, I think you used the analogy

putting toothpaste back in the tube, right?

[Zach] The toothpaste is not going back on the tube.

It's not going back on that one.

No. All right.

Well, shifting gears away from AI for a little bit.

We've got a few minutes left.

I wanted to talk to you.

You've done a lot about streaming.

Are you still invested in theatrical releases?

Yeah, I think that movies absolutely

can and should be experienced in the theater.

I never really, like...

When I made the Netflix films that I've made,

the two I've made, well, three really.

But the...

Four, five. There's a lot.

There was a lot of cuts, you know how I am.

But the... [Hemal laughing]

And then the TV show, I forgot about that.

But anyway the process of working

in the format of a streamer, for me,

I was really very clear about,

Okay, I'm making a movie for TV.

That's fine.

I'm not under any kind of misconception

that I'm making a movie for the theater.

I'm happy to do that if that's the assignment

and that's the way it's gonna be shown.

But like, you know, we know that

so much of the material, like,

when you make a movie that's going to play on Netflix,

chances are if your movie ever is shown on Netflix,

more people will see it on Netflix

than ever saw it in the theater.

Right? Right, right.

That's just a fact.

And even a big blockbuster, you make

blockbusters in the theaters, and then

it gets licensed by Netflix.

More people will see it probably

on Netflix than also saw your Blockbuster.

[Hemal] You're just going after the eyeballs.

But what I'm saying is that...

And I'm not necessarily a pure eyeball guy.

Okay. Because I don't...

You know, a lot of the movies that I've made

have a very particular audience

and they're made in a very particular way.

And they're not necessarily, you know,

pure mass audience.

That's not the way I think it happened.

It can happen, that's fine.

But what I'm saying is that

the assignments are different.

And I'm fine if you're asking me

to make a movie for your streaming,

[Hemal] You're not precious about it.

I'm not gonna say like,

Hey, like, I'm not an artist if it's not in a theater.

You know, like, that feels rude.

I mean, that's great. Yeah.

Only because you're paying for the movie.

Right. You know,

you're the streamer.

You're like, This is our format.

We have a giant streaming service.

250 million people are gonna look at it

on their phones, probably.

You know?

And at the very beginning of our conversation,

I have to know that's the reality.

Right. If I do,

then I should be fine with everything that happens after it.

Right. But you're fine with that, though?

Like, with Netflix?

Well, I have an amazing relationship with Netflix.

I think they're incredible.

Like the pipe that delivers your ideas

to people who are enjoying it, is pretty efficient.

At the same time, I would say that

if the assignment was, if you were,

Universal Studioses, and you came to me

and said, Hey, we wanna make a movie

that's like a big theatrical release.

Yeah. You know,

What do you think?

I'd be like, That sounds amazing.

I'd love that.

IMAX, why not?

One last final question for you.

In the few minutes that we have left here.

With technology, with like streaming being

the primary way people consume movies right now,

what is the story that you are most excited to tell?

So, do you mean, like, just for me personally?

With this technology, like with AI technology,

I think you mentioned that like AI

was gonna let you do things that you hadn't

really figured out how to do yet.

Yeah, no, it's an interesting...

I mean, I feel like I guess that's it, you know.

The way I see it working right now

is really as an incubator, in kind of

the most efficient way possible.

You know, like, I can experiment, I can feel,

I can work on things that normally

would require a big amount of effort from everybody.

And that I can have ready on the day

when now we have the crew standing by.

But like, you know, I think

that there's no substitute for, you know,

walking down a gritty street with an actor

and me with the camera.

I don't know that anyone would ever want

the sort of AI version of that.

I don't know that that's...

I mean, it could be done, but I just

don't know that-

[Hemal] I mean, it can be done.

There's no need. Right.

So like there isn't a need for it.

And also you're saying that it would strip

like the personal vision out of it.

Yes.

And I'm not even saying that.

I'm just saying that like, you know,

there is a texture and sort of a point of view.

I think in the end, I always say this about filmmakers.

You know, my thing is that the only thing you have

as a filmmaker is your point of view.

That's it.

You're not right. You're not wrong.

You're not morally correct.

You're not morally wrong.

Okay. You are just you.

You are like a prism.

And so the way you see kind of shines through you

And goes.

Like, my favorite movies are movies

where I can kind of feel the director's hand

a little bit, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Their guide, they're showing me things

I wouldn't have thought of.

And I think that in the end,

that's what it comes back to, is that

I want that point of view, that human point of view

to really be kind of moving me, like

in a narrative way through a story

that I wouldn't have thought of,

or that I couldn't imagine what's gonna happen next.

And I just think that that's really what we,

as audiences, that's what we pay for.

That's what we hunger for.

And so how that's gotten to,

like what tools are used to get to that

very human thing, that could change.

You're not precious about the tools that you're using.

[Zach] I'm precious about that voice.

The vision and the voice. Yeah. Yeah.

All right.

Well, I think that's a great way

for us to end it off.

Zach, thank you so much for being here.

Awesome. Thanks, guys. [audience clapping]